Interview with Sigmund, an early member of the SA and SS TotenKopfverband,
a veteran of the Totenkopf Division that fought in 1944/45 to relieve Budapest, and most interestingly, a member of the Thule Society. Munich, 1989.

  • I have to say, this is by far the most interesting and explosive interview yet. It is the only interview I know of in existence with a member of the Thule Society. His words are simply electrifying. Inspiring seems like such a small word to describe Sigmund's words. Furthermore, he brings up some VERY interesting questions... First, he speaks of the Thule Society being around DURING the Third Reich. This contradicts the scant evidence of it dissolving around 1933 after Hitler's assumption of power. This raises some burning questions. Did it exist in another form under Himmler's eye, and Sigmund still called it 'Thule' for convenience? I certainly would not be surprised if it survived the secret society purges, since its ranks were filled with future NSDAP members.

    Another question and oddity exists in the interview where he refers to something as 'wind'. He seems to be referring to a force, or magical power, or even perhaps a deity's power. Thor was the god of wind and he mentions Odin. He also states that the deaths of his comrades were 'known only to the wind'. This force he also credits to giving the German scientists their amazing inventions. It also is used as a weapon against the enemy.

    Sigmund was a man of incredible talent, energy and passion, and is now shrouded in mystery. Read the interview and you'll understand the many questions that will probably remain unanswered forever. Sigmund speaks of not only an all-out physical war with the enemy, but of a spiritual one, happening simultaneously. A magical war being waged in utmost secrecy. Is that war still being waged? Could it be true? You be the judge.

  • Thanks for allowing me to meet with you, I appreciate your time. I would like to start by asking how you came to join the SS?

    Sigmund: Firstly you are welcome, I am a lonely old man now and it is nice to entertain you and this lovely lady. How I came to join the SS, boy that is a distant memory, I will tell you. I didn’t start out in the SS; I was first a member of the Munich SA. I was young and joined in 1926. I even met the Führer then, he was quite a famous man here, and they called Munich the capital of the movement. You know why? We beat back the reds here and defeated their attempts to steal power. He launched the movement right here, in a place called the Bürgerbräukeller [the beer hall in Munich where Adolf Hitler launched the 1923 Putsch.-Ed.]

    They just tore it down a few years ago. I was in the SA here and would go off with Hitler to fight the reds all over Germany. My job was a traveling salesman, so it worked that I would arrange to go sell close to where a rally or march would be. Once, I was hit in the head by a brick thrown by a red and knocked out. The next day I had to present my sales pitch with a bloody bandage on. That was an interesting time for me for sure; we fought the reds all over the Reich. I met my first wife in 1930 while on an election trip to Berlin to put up fliers. She was a friend of my sister, Maria Schonberger, who was a BDM [Bund Deutscher Mädel, or League of German Girls] leader and who came to Berlin also. My sister and her husband were also early party members.

    Her friend, Kathe, was a singer in a cabaret, and I told my comrades I would give her my calling card that night. They did not believe me, and bet I would not do it. After she was done with a set, I approached her, stumbled with my words, and looked like a fool. She had pity on me and asked me to buy her a drink. My comrades were baffled and had to pay the bet. To my surprise we had much more in common than just my sister, so we hit it off and stayed in touch. I was hooked and we eventually married in 1936. We had a simple wedding that the SS office helped with.

    Let me get back to your question. I met many SS members early on during the years of struggle; I was considered an old guard since I was with Hitler since 1926. A high officer had dealt with my company, and had a problem with one of the sales. I was able to quickly fix it, and this impressed him. In 1932 I was offered a position in recruiting, since I was a salesman they thought I would fit right in. I was told Himmler approved and I was made to leave the SA, and join the SS on Himmler's direction as a candidate. I was part of the early SS main office.

    And so that is it, I became an SS man on the direction of Reichsführer-SS Himmler himself. I had to go through the application process but it was rushed as I could prove I was an Aryan. I was a member of the Thule Society so that helped me, since many of our members were in the SS as well.

    I have always understood the SS was into dark magic, or devil worship. The Thule Society was a secret branch that was very anti-God. Was any of this true?

    Sigmund: You are like most of the youth today, they are taught by the TV, comic books, and ignorant teachers. You are asking because I was in the Thule Society, which was not part of the NSDAP or the SS. It existed long before both were formed. I can tell you to your face that it was made up of some of the brightest minds in Germany. Himmler allowed these meetings, even when it was hard for these type of societies to exist. There were too many memories of them being subversive and led by Marxist-thinking people. Ours was different, in that we were all racial nationalists. We saw that there was a divine being over our whole people.

    The SS gave us a printing house to use, and other like-minded men from Europe came to us to study what the meaning of it all was. We went to Externsteine [located in Teutoburg Forest, Externsteine is a peculiar rock formation sacred to European pagan past, it is also said to be the location of the Irminsul idol destroyed by Charlemagne.-Ed.] and many other sacred sites to view the clues that may have been left for those who could see. Our Germanic ancestors called to us to see the light and come to knowledge. We consulted men like Weisthor [This is an alias for Karl Maria Wiligut (December 10, 1866 – January 3, 1946), the famed and mysterious Austrian occultist and SS-Brigadeführer.-Ed.] and the learned elders for guidance.

    You see, this was all about us, the study of Germanic history, meaning our ancestors. They left us markers and documentation that we had a vested interest in. We studied what they knew about life and death, health and heredity, customs and beliefs. This was all we did; study the past to protect the future. Our people used Runes to guide them, and many in the societies were Rune Masters who understood the power of the Runes. We wanted a society that understood the basic tenants of our people; freedom, happiness, safety, and love. This is what all people crave, but it is denied -- why? There is a dark evil on this earth, yes. This evil encourages hate, destruction, unnatural lust, and love of material things.

    [Above: Symbol of the Thule Society.]

    There is a force who opposes this darkness -- it is light. It is surrounded by chivalry, honor, love, and fortitude. This force of light has become hidden by the force of darkness. Almost all people do not see this battle; their minds are blinded, or poisoned. They can't see that a great war is being waged right in their midst. It was our goal to find the source of the light and bring it to us, to illuminate the world and show the way to enlightenment and true freedom. We earnestly knew that when Hitler came that it was a sign that light would be shown on earth again, but the darkness was far stronger than even Hitler.

    The members of of the Thule Society tried everything we knew to bring light to Germany; the light the Church was no longer capable of bringing. When I say that, it does not mean we hated the church, we only hated what corruption had done to the churches. You see, this darkness is very strong, and it poses as good things, easily convincing people. Hitler and Himmler tried to expose the darkness for what it was, but they did not move fast enough. The darkness which found a home in the people called Jews was able to weave into our other brethren of the world and start the war. We fell into their trap quite easily and it was the end of us.

    The war played right into the hands of the evil ones, and as their power grew, feeding off their hate, light declined. The Runes gave us the wind, which we sent against the enemy but they were too numerous to stop. Even with the divine sparks that the wind gave our leaders and scientists, we could not overcome the evil. However, I will go to my grave believing we somehow won. I will say the Allied victory is hollow. Darkness won the battle but the war will be won by the forces of light. The Runes foretold it. You are Christian, yes? Even your books foretell this. I don't believe they are Jewish fables. These are the words of our people.

    Every European people has foretold of the ending of the forces of darkness in a great final battle that will forever end the war. It will happen, mark my word; whether it is your god, Odin or others, it is coming. These evildoers of mankind will once and for all time be banished away from us. Pray you live to see that great, terrible day my friend, it will be uplifting to your soul. You both will get to see the wickedness of the world and all who have helped and prospered from it be banished from here. The Runes foretold you will weep on your knees to see the end of the darkness and all the evil it has brought to this earth. Then the great light of all that is known will shine forever on us.

    You remember this, even in dark times there will be light, they have lost and there is nothing they can do to ever win. It is and was foretold and it shall be in the end our final victory. You remember that. We were not ungodly in the least; our God was the true God of light, not this fake god they prop up today. They have you believing Jewish lies and fables so that they can make everyone believe and follow what they want them to follow. They have them convinced that the dark ones are good and the sons of light are evil. They are doing nothing new; they have been at this since the beginning of time.

    It was told that this race would be a threat to our peoples, and work to destroy us from both within and without. They will not stop until the end of their time, it is in their bloodline to do this, for it is their destiny.

    [Above: The Julleuchter candle holder. A 1936 issue of Germanien magazine informed that, among other meanings, it was a symbol of the victory of light over the darkness, and that it was a symbol of never ending sunlight.]

    I understand you were part of the Totenkopf units early on, how did you come to them?

    Sigmund: Yes I was but that is something not well known today as you can understand. I was moved to help recruit for the SS office, and was tasked with filling many openings. After the assumption of power in 1933, things moved very quickly. The state was now on our side and everyone wanted to be a part of the new Germany. My office had to ensure that that only the best of German blood would be admitted into this very elite and loyal comradeship. The Totenkopf units were formed to watch over the many political prisoners that were arrested in 1933 and 1934. It is true there were arrests of reds and other opponents. History tells us if the shoe was on the other foot, we would have all been killed by them.

    I will tell you I was happy with this, as I saw personally how the reds fought us, the terror they unleashed, the free hunting they would allow of any NSDAP member. They murdered a good many of our comrades, and they had help doing it. The party was half loved, half hated, and those who hated the party would band with the reds to help fight us. I remember that some church people went away, which is said to be a bad thing today, but they sided with ungodly people who killed comrades simply because of their belief. Unions were rounded up because they threw in their lot with the reds as well. Then that damned red burned down the Reichstag to protest, that set all the arrests in motion, as the reds tried to rise up after our victory.

    I interviewed many of the first guards for Dachau and visited there many times. I saw many of the early camps, as I would go to ensure staffing needs were being met. I can tell you with a clean slate that no one in any of the camps was abused. If they ever were, they could report it, and the guard would be relieved, if it was true. I sat in once on this, in one of the early camps, a guard got upset that an inmate spit food on him and attacked the man with his truncheon, beating him to the brink of death. While I understood his anger and motivation, it was against the rules, and he was dismissed and demoted, being moved out of the camp system.

    Eicke approved the order; there was no room for hot heads in the SS. I stayed with this role until 1943. I was getting worried at the military situation and an event happened to push me into the war. Our home was by the train station, and my wife was pregnant with our first child. Those damn planes came and attacked the city, and she never took cover in the shelter for some reason. She was killed; they found her in the stairway trying to seek cover. It's alright. I was given mourning leave to try to repair myself. The SS offices sent many wishes, and made funds open to me should I need anything. My Thule comrades came to me as well to offer comfort in my time of need.

    I spoke to my commander and asked to be assigned to the Totenkopf division which was fighting in the east. He sternly said no, I was too old and that I needed to survive this war. I went over his head as I had no reason to live then. I was given permission to join the training unit in Warsaw. I still remember the 30km marches we would be forced to complete. I was older than the boys, and brought into the Waffen-SS as a Scharführer, and put into the infantry, then moved to supply. Someone just did not want me in the front line. In 1944 I joined the unit as they were sent to Modlin [Poland]. I found the division was short of everything needed to function. The supply system needed work.

    [Above: The brave knights of Totenkopf, exhausted beyond human means, fight for a future most of them would never see.]

    Can I ask what you remember about being on the east front?

    Sigmund: Yes, I was with the supply company and tasked with making sure each unit was fairly given their required rations and replenishment. The fighting units were down to nothing. The reds had grown in strength since 1943 and now were much larger than our thinned ranks.

    I saw the mud in the spring, the roads were awful with mud, and it made any movement hard. We had prisoners and other workers who helped lay down rocks or logs, and it still was hard to get around. We had many Russians who were prisoners of war, who offered to help us; they would curse the damned weather. It would take 20 men to pull a supply truck out of the mud, often no other tracked vehicles were around. I saw our massive tiger tanks of the panzer regiment struggle. I was able to ride on one of these beasts once, in the summer we received a new shipment and I was able to go with the driver to deliver it to the regiment. I was awestruck at the power and size; it was feared by our enemies.

    That summer there was talk of new reinforcements and weapons, some of which the wind had sent to us. The Rune masters said these would be a step toward winning as the Allies had nothing like them. Many of us put our faith in these new weapons. Then the reds launched a massive attack that pushed the German forces back to Warsaw.

    I remember seeing the civilians who fled west away from the reds, they were telling us they saw many acts of hate committed by reds and their partisan allies. Where I was we did not see any partisan activity, this was a new kind of fighting that came later in the war. Never has an army had to face organized resistance behind the main fighting areas like we did. Those bastards were armed, trained, and led by Allied soldiers. They claim today they had nothing to do with it, but they allowed them to go around and commit unspeakable acts of terror. I saw this in Hungary, we came into a town that was taken from partisans. The partisans had rounded everyone up, killing anyone who was identified as friendly to Germans.

    When we retook it the civilians came out of hiding from the woods and told us what they had seen; they turned in a couple who helped the partisans identify people. Because they aided in the deaths of the victims, the survivors were allowed to hang them. They strung them up on trees, both husband and wife. The east front was not a place you wanted to be, but duty called us there to defend Europe from the hordes from the east. The Jews raised their red beast to exact revenge on the forces of light for exposing them to the world. I could see it in the faces of those fleeing west, they knew that terror, and had seen it when Bolshevism was birthed.

    Can I ask you to describe the Polish and Hungarian people you came in contact with, did they treat you bad? Did you see any acts against them?

    Sigmund: I had nothing against the people in the east, I thought the Poles were not the smartest peoples of Europe, and had been made dumb by the pestilence of the east, and their bloodlines. However there were many good people I met. During the summer I was near Warsaw and I would work out trades for us. We traded fairly with them, and used their businesses when we could. Of course there were those who hated us, and did not like Germans so we never did business with them. I have to say I found it ironic that after the 1939 invasion, we spent a lot of time and money helping the Poles rebuild Warsaw.

    During the uprising they demolished the hard work everyone put in to rebuild that city. Even the Allies bombed it during the uprising, causing damage which they lay blame on us. While the fighting was going on we helped many of the civilians who wanted nothing to do with the fighting. They scattered in every direction when it broke out, and came asking for food and help for the journey to safety. In our camps we would have civilians come to bring news, food and trinkets to sell. Even the prostitutes would try to sneak in. This was forbidden as many of these women were unclean and forbidden due to disease.

    You could get in trouble for having sex while knowing the girl had a disease. One man in my unit, we called him 'Sewer' because he always liked the fattest, smelliest, and ugliest girls around. He caught something that summer and was put under arrest for knowingly bedding a prostitute who had a disease. I would say to you that even in the last weeks of the war the civilians were very friendly and helpful to us. The women would help care for our wounded; the men folk would give directions and intelligence on what they had seen of enemy strength. Of course if any civilian was caught acting against us, then there was punishment, but this was rare.

    [Above: The skull and cross bones of the Totenkopfverband IV above the Deutschland Erwache standard.]

    Did you see any action in the Warsaw uprising?

    Sigmund: No, my unit was ordered to hold the line against the reds. It was a strange irony; the reds aided and encouraged the Poles to strike us, promising a quick liberation. The Poles fought the Red Army 22 years earlier and learned then that they were blood thirsty animals led by fanatical Bolsheviks, and then they sided with them anyway.

    They laid themselves on the altar of darkness and joined in the bloodlust of murder against anyone German. I heard the stories told by survivors of the fighting. It was cruel and vile, where the so-called home guard was nothing but a band of criminals who ran around from neighborhood to neighborhood killing those who were German or friendly to us. They took no prisoners.

    With these acts of terror and murder, they invited our retribution onto those who fought us. In a great show of mercy, led by the SS, these criminals were forgiven and allowed to leave the city. I saw the long lines of them all, dirty and smelly; evil accompanied them out of the city. I was able to see some of the aftermath of the fighting, however only a short time after the reds attacked us and drove us away from Warsaw. Many of our comrades were left in the city, never to be seen again, and known only to the wind.

    You were part of the relief force for Budapest?

    Sigmund: Yes, I was not part of the attack forces but I went forward with them, I saw the destruction the forces of the east had brought. Our small force could not hope to break them at this stage; they were a vast army, and we a mere piece of bark of what we had been. Our losses were bad, I helped the wounded get moved to rear areas and came under shelling, the Red Cross meant nothing to the reds.

    Let us shell or bomb a hospital and we are called evil doers and wicked, but when they did it, it was just the price of victory. They are liars and hypocrites who represent evil on this earth, as I have said. Our attacks to relieve the city failed and were repulsed by the hordes of the east and that was the end of the war and our hope of final victory.

    All we could do was move towards the homeland, and pray for a miracle that never came for us. Our new watchword was helping all the civilians flee west, and there were millions of them, I saw their forlorn faces full of fear. We could do nothing for them, we knew we had let them down and now the enemy was coming for them. There was nothing we could do, you see, they outmatched us when they shouldn't have been able to.

    [Above: The Allies broke every taboo, every rule of war, every convention. Not even Red Cross hosptials and vehicles were safe from their murder machines. This photo shows a Red Cross ambulance shot to pieces by Soviet troops near the Dnieper River, 1941.]

    I would be curious to know your thoughts on the Allied claims that the SS was a criminal organization. Do you believe them?

    Sigmund: No, I believe all the claims they made during and after the war are shit. The camps for example, they parade the photos of the bodies around like it's definitive proof of a crime. Ask yourself how they died, you can’t answer because you don’t know, you were not there. I was, and I will tell you they died of typhus, like so many did at the end of the first war, and the second. The Allies made these pictures possible by smashing our interior and factories that made medicine. Our bridges were gone, tracks blown, and vehicles strafed so nothing could get to the people in the last month.

    Himmler made the camps self-sufficient in many ways but they still needed medicine that they could not get. I don't believe the stories from the east either in which they say we ran large camps just to kill Jews. That would be so counter-productive to our war needs, only an imbecile bathed in the darkness would believe it. We needed all the labor we could find, so to harm, mistreat, or kill that labor is not practical. I know many comrades who were in the camp system in one role or another, and they all say these stories and photos are lies. I believe my comrades words over anyone else's. These many accounts of SS misdeeds are coming from the dark light and meant to hide the true light from the world.

    What happened to you at the end and after?

    Sigmund: The division moved into Austria in April of '45, and there we surrendered at war's end. I was at that time helping our medical staff with supply needs. They had very badly wounded men who needed to get to a hospital. I helped procure a vehicle and we loaded them to get to a hospital several kilometers away.

    I was told by the staff to stay there, as they were hearing the Allies were killing SS men. A doctor ordered me to help with the wounded, so I did. I had developed a new urge to live, so I exchanged uniforms and stayed on with the staff helping the wounded. The Americans did come to remove all military personnel, but I was let go after only a few months due to my helping in the medical unit.

    I was listed as medical personnel and that likely saved me from a bad fate. Many comrades were turned over to the reds and never came home. I had good comrades who just vanished after May 8th. I returned to Munich that winter and started to rebuild my life. It was hard the first months but soon help started coming in. Businesses returned and I took a job as a salesman again.

    All I knew was gone, the [Thule] Society was outlawed and most all members fell in the war or died after. Weisthor died shortly after. I spoke to his aide who had words of encouragement and gave me a token of remembrance that he asked a society member to keep safe. So here I am, with you now, I was eventually able to rebuild what was lost, remarry a lovely lady from Graz [Austria], and have a lineage.

    [Above: 'Unser Leben Geht Dahin Wie Ein Geschwätz' (Our Life Passes Away Like Idle Chatter), inscription on the grave of Karl Maria Wiligut.]

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