Leo: Well youngster, it is a long boring story. I was born right before the first war broke out, so remember nothing of it. I wanted to be a soldier as my elders were, that drove me since I was very young. When I turned 19, I was done with school, and would not need permission to join the Heer [another word for Wehrmact, or Army]. I applied for the old Reichsheer in 1933, Hitler's election opened up the amount that could join, as it was supposed to be only 100,000. I served in the Heer for four years and really liked it, but at the same time there were needs all over the Reich for men to fill good positions. The police caught my eye and I enlisted as a police officer, I believe it was 1937. The police by then were under the leadership of a man named Heinrich Himmler, he was the boss of the SS and Police. Even though I was a German police officer, I was part of the overall SS and I liked the idea of the SS. It was the political guard of the nation and held in very high status. I was in the police when the war broke out and I wanted to do my part when a voluntary call up was made of the German police. We were to be used as a combat arm to help the fighting SS units already being formed. I spoke to my commander and he approved my release and that set me on a course in the Waffen-SS. I was sent to the Police Regiment that was soon formed into the SS Police Division [SS Division Polizei]. We were green, but soon learned to be an effective combat unit.

How was the Waffen-SS different from the Heer?

Leo: It was not different in the sense of service and training, but the SS was seen as a private army. It was loyal to only the Führer; it was outside the chain of the Heer command. Due to this the army did not like the idea of an armed, combat ready SS. They fought this in the beginning and made it hard for SS units to equip and arm. Some did not want competition for the already scarce equipment. Himmler did a good job of bypassing the army and getting our own supplies through loyal companies, and later using the camps to provide insignia, uniforms, and caps. Today they say to be ashamed of that, that we used prisoners for work, but who in the world does not use prison labor. In the very beginning, life was hard for us due to the Heer always interfering and giving orders they had no right to give. In the police regiment we were tasked with punishing those who broke the laws as well, something else the Heer did not understand. They would protest any reprisal against assassins or saboteurs, no matter what their crime, it is like some approved of their actions.

I saw this in France; there were some non-European soldiers who were brought into France to fight us. Many of them were very unruly and quite hard to control; force had to be used on some to get them to listen. I believe a few were executed for assault on German soldiers, and even French civilians. We were trying to fight the enemy, and also keep order and discipline. The decision was made to let us be combat soldiers first, and then rear area security second. Russia would be our true test of battle, as we faced a very massive and hard foe in both the land and soldiers. I wanted to share that, but in all respects the Waffen-SS and Heer were the same, in that we fought together, and against the same enemy. We fought to defend Germany, and to achieve common goals. We had no animosity towards the Heer, indeed many SS men were former soldiers who liked the idea of a private political army. Our training was the same, especially the specialist training. Our officers were different, there was no snobby, elitist, or "I am wealthier than you" attitude. We were all equal in the SS, and each soldier was a comrade first and foremost.

I understand you were a Panzerman, how was your training?

Leo: The SS had schools set up for each field of combat. If you trained with assault guns you went to [SS-Truppenübungsplatz] Heidelager, signals you went to Nuremberg, for the Panzers we trained in Bitsch. Each school would last for a couple months on average, and you had to pass stages of proficiency. I was given the chance to come to the Panzer arm, and I accepted. We trained on very early Panzers like the Panzer II and Panzer III. Later on, in the field we had the Panzer IV long barrel. Because of my past service and career, I was made a commander of my own Panzer and picked my crew. We trained in the classroom at first, then moved into the field to work on driving and shooting, to do both was a challenge. I have to say our training was hard, it took lots of concentration and learning to work together as a team. I had to direct and manage four men all at once. We went on to have a very good run of things; I was made commander of the 6th Company in SS Panzer Regiment 10.