This interview was done in Munich, in 1992 with Gudrun Himmler (Burwitz). She was born on August 8, 1929 and died on May 24, 2018 at the symbolic age of 88. She was 63 years old when she did this interview.
This interview was done in Munich, in 1992 with Gudrun Himmler (Burwitz). She was born on August 8, 1929 and died on May 24, 2018 at the symbolic age of 88. She was 63 years old when she did this interview.
Thanks for meeting with me; I would like to ask you some questions regarding your father Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler and your recollections of the Third Reich. May I start by asking what you remember about life before the war?
Gudrun: Life was good, and I mean that in every sense of the word. While I remember nothing about the struggle for power as I was born in 1929, I heard many stories. When I started to remember my life, it was 1934 and I remember my father coming home in his sharp black uniform, and I would take his cap and play with it. All I remember hearing was how much better everyone had it, I would overhear how Germany overcame a lot of despair and a bad economy.
The people I saw were genuinely happy; there were smiles everyplace I would go, and my father took me with him on many trips. I remember the throngs of people who came up to my father to thank him and the other leaders around him for saving them. It was a strange feeling, my father was very high up in the Reich government but yet I felt, and my father reinforced this, that we were part of the people, no better and no worse. That was the essence of National Socialism; everything was done for the people, to help improve everyone's life and happiness.
I still remember going for walks and smelling all the gourmet food from the mom and pop stores that lined the streets, under National Socialism everyone was encouraged to start a small business or to have a good career, so we had many shops to choose from. I would often go with my mother to buy ingredients for dishes that we would cook together; every family was encouraged to eat together and share. The life I remember in the Reich was organized, happy, fulfilling, and full of hope.
There are those who disagree, saying that National Socialism was hateful, racist, divisive, and pure evil, you do not believe this to be factual?
Gudrun: Not in a million years. It shows you how powerful propaganda is. There is a book an American showed me called “The War that Hitler Won” and it attempted to show how effective “Nazi propaganda“ was in brainwashing the masses to do evil things. The truth is far different. It was the Allies who are the masters of propaganda, convincing millions that a nation and its people must die and suffer because they are a threat to “freedom”.
National Socialism was born due to a nation being plundered and taken advantage of, with the people lacking the proper will to live and fight for their future. The Führer and those around him saw the problems, identified what was causing the problems, and showed the solution to solve the problems.
The idea of a people standing on their own two feet and taking the reins of their future are offensive to those who want to plunder and make huge profits off of a people they slowly want to destroy. We loved our people, nation, and creator. We wished no ill will on any other people, but we demanded they leave us alone. We loved the Europe of our ancestors, and wanted to preserve the priceless culture that has given the world every good thing it knows today.
Because we loved our people, our nation, and our leaders we are called racists and hateful? We truly live in a world upside down. We fought so that the world would be a better place; we insisted that Germany be given control of its destiny. Germany was forced to occupy nations so that we could protect our borders during time of war, in no way did our leaders wish to impose our beliefs on these nations.
Your father is accused of ordering the killing of millions, putting millions of others in concentration camps, and overseeing a police state whom terrorized anyone who did not comply. Can you speak about this?
Gudrun: My father was a man of incredible honor, love, and loyalty. You are, I am sure, referring to the Jews. No conversation about National Socialism is complete without talking about the Jews, and the crimes they claim to be victims of. I was around my father often, even during the war, if there was a state plan to kill Jews I would have heard it, even if by accident. I heard my father give orders that life in the transit and prison camps be made comfortable and tolerable for the prisoners.
[Above: Heinrich and Gudrun Himmler at an official event in 1938]
My father was a policeman, he had a deep sense of right and wrong, and expected his men to follow the law in a uniform manner. He gave a speech, which I attended, where I heard him exalt and chastise his officers regarding not policing fairly. Everyone had friends, and everyone had the “good Jew” in which they were hesitant to enforce the removals to ghettos and work camps. He told them that the SD was uncovering so much espionage and illegal activity in even the "good Jews" that they must all be moved to where they could be better watched.
Therefore, Germany, like many other nations, moved aliens whom were deemed a threat to the war effort to areas where they could be concentrated together and watched. Nothing sinister, evil, or wrong with protecting your people and nation during times of war. You no doubt will bring up the photos next which tie into the eyewitness stories. Many inmates died in these camps, but not because of a policy of killing or neglect. One thing that seemed to pain my father was that the Allies bombed some of the camps, killing inmates. Because of the bombing of Europe, especially in the final months of the war, necessities that were needed in the camps could not get through, and many prisoners who came west were sick, and terrible outbreaks happened in a couple of the camps in which these prisoners were put in, Belsen was a prime example.
I cannot state enough that there was no policy to kill innocent people simply because of racial ideas. There were many partisans and criminals who were killed, some in the camps and some after being rounded up, but this had nothing to do with exterminating a race. My father hated seeing death in wartime, but he was a policeman who knew his duty and knew what he asked of his officers was a hard duty, but when people break the laws of war, and kill innocents, they too must be held accountable and those who help them.
So if I may, let me ask a pointed question, if National Socialism was so good and peaceful, why were so many people opposed to German rule? Czechoslovakia and France are good examples of people standing up and fighting back.
Gudrun: Be clear in what you are stating. There is a difference between National Socialism and German rule. You no doubt are referring to my father’s good friend Reinhard Heydrich when you speak of Czechoslovakia. He was assassinated because he was so good to the people, it is a good study of the way the Allies twist history to their liking and use the Czechs as pawns. They were ruled by Germany, and under occupation, which many did not like, it had nothing to do with National Socialism. Heydrich brought National Socialist ideas to the people and vastly started to improve their lives during a war in which everyone had to sacrifice.
[Above: Reinhard Heydrich]
Only Czechs motivated by politics, mainly communists and Jews were the “resistance”. During the funeral for Heydrich, thousands upon thousands of Czechs turned out to bid him farewell. The real reason he was killed was that he was so good; the English then spread disinformation to us saying it was Czech partisans rising up with help from the people. Those in charge fell for that claim, and came down harshly on people even if just by rumor, something Heydrich would have been against as he would have wanted hard evidence.
France was the same way; the people were treated very well, only the die-hard communists formed a resistance, which the average French person wanted no part of. My father was proud of the French who sent many people to help us, either in the factories or the front. So yes, there were those opposed to German rule, but many more were receptive to the ideas of National Socialism and saw a future that was very bright for all Europeans. It is too bad we were not given the luxury of being able to un-occupy these people and turn them over to true National Socialist leaders. The war made the occupation necessary to secure our borders from enemy invasion.
What was your father's view regarding religion and Christianity? History tells us he was an occultist and worked to destroy the Church and persecute Christians.
Gudrun: Wow, you certainly have read enough of the victor's version of our history. This is somewhat hard to explain to someone who is not German, but I will try. My father had a vision of a people turning back to their creator, who gave us everything we know. Our people, the Europeans, have created all the great civilizations, have set foot on every continent, and have brought great good to the whole world. We are leaps and bounds ahead of any other peoples, including the advanced Orientals. My father asked the questions as to why, where and how. He commissioned studies of our history, to trace the footsteps of our ancestors, where did they originate and why were they so intelligent and advanced when other races stayed the same?
Germany had some of the most advanced anthropologists, genetic scientists, historians, and supporting staff to help find the answers to why we exist and how it all came to be. My father was religious, and raised us to be also. A Being is responsible for life, that is very easy to see because of what it is, nature and the beauty of the earth. Nature is clear about that, the problem, or question is who he is. Every race was given a way to worship their creator, the European people found a God who worked well for us for 2 thousand years. My father's concern was that in just the last 200 years Jews have wormed their way into our religion, even to the point of working on translating parts of the Bible to suit their needs.
They were then able to convince leaders that the Bible really is about the Jew and not about Europeans; we are only secondary along with all other “gentiles”. This made no sense to my father, as Jews have not had any of the marks of a creative, industrious people. I have met people from your country who agree that the Jews cannot be the people of the Bible, or that the Bible is only for the Jew, who denounce and hate Christ. We Europeans took his name; hence, every European nation is a Christian nation. My father did not hate the Church or persecute the Church. What he disagreed with was the Judeo influence on the Church; Germany had some sects who worshiped the Jew as the only people close to God.
The SS idea was to turn our people back to their roots from where they came and away from the modern Judeo church whom was seen as a destructive Trojan horse to weaken the people, and turn them from their God. The German Christians were a good start, and my father attended many services by pastors who understood the Jewish influence on the Christian religion was not a good thing and led to false teachings. Therefore, my father respected the Church, many SS officers were Catholic, and he had no wish to anger Christians. He did however want people to see another side of the Church that was not healthy for the people. It became lazy, drenched in liberal thought, even suggesting homosexuals should be allowed in society, and that race does not matter to the creator who created the races.
Germans have always revered our history; you will see in our very old cathedrals' images from our Germanic past, the gods our ancestors prayed to, and it is all tied into our modern worldview of religion. We worship God by thanking him for our history, and honoring our ancestors who brought us forward into the age we are in.
Did you ever see a concentration camp?
Gudrun: Yes I did, in 1941 my father asked me to come with him so I could see how prisoners were getting along in Germany’s largest and oldest camp. We arrived and were greeted by prisoners along with the camp commander. I was impressed with how happy the prisoners were; we moved through the camp with no guards and had prisoners showing us what they did day to day. I saw the gardens, trees, hospital, baths, quarters, and theater rooms. The commander laughed that the prisoners lived better than he did. The prisoners were very friendly, I asked one man who was a communist how he liked the camp; he of course said he would rather be home, but life here was not terrible. This was in 1941, when we were supposed to be killing them all.
[Above: Heinrich Himmler (front right, beside prisoner) visiting the Dachau Concentration Camp in 1936.]
I often heard my father speak of the camps, and he was very proud of the organization and effectiveness in using labor for everything from clothing, crops, and war material to help with the shortages caused by the war. He also spoke about the East and people he met in the camps. There is a photo of him speaking to a Russian boy, who thanked him for freeing his area of Soviets, he told about being an orphan because his family was killed by retreating Soviets and wanting to come to Germany. My father saw to it that he came to the Reich and ended up adopted by a German family who lost their son in Poland.
[Above: Heinrich Himmler speaking to a Russian P.O.W. in 1941, possibly the one Gudrun mentioned above.]
What did you know about the Ahnenerbe, Wewelsburg, and the Lebensborn? These are all said to be sinister and examples of Aryan superman ruling the world.
Gudrun: I was around many if not all of the high leaders of the SS, so you could say I know more about the organization my father founded than most. There was nothing sinister about any of these organizations. I want to start with the Lebensborn, because that is probably the least understood and is a prime example of how caring and charitable the SS was. These were homes for wives of SS men where they could go have a child in a resort-like setting. It was also opened to any woman who became pregnant but was not married, and whose family may have disapproved.
By the end of the war, homes were open to all women all over Europe who had gotten pregnant by a German soldier, and who needed help. There were people in the occupied countries who actually killed the mother and child, just because there was a German father. These homes gave women a safe haven to prepare for birth and stay after birth. My father was very proud of these homes; they show the National Socialist love for life and charity.
Wewelsburg was nothing but a retreat and research center for SS men. They were to be the new vanguard of a genetic repopulation of Germany to make up for the losses of the first war and its aftermath. The Jews promoted a genetic cesspool where everyone was encouraged to breed, no matter if you had a defect or not, but healthy women were also encouraged to abort their healthy babies. This was their way to weaken a nation’s gene pool and kill off the best of the best, making their conquest easier.
The blood and soil concept was a back to the roots of our ancestors' idea; it was in this that our gene pool would be repaired. Wewelsburg was set up so an SS member could study all about our history, our genetic makeup that makes us whom we are, and how to preserve it. It was to be a place of honor for high SS leaders, so that future generations could honor the sacrifices they made to bring us a better world through National Socialism.
The Ahnenerbe was nothing but an archeological research institute run by the SS. They went all over the world looking into the history of the Europeans, and looking for evidence of the paths the tribes took coming into Europe. They found evidence of European, who also can mostly be called Aryan, mummies in Tibet and China, Iran, and all over what we call Persia or the Middle East. They tested Egyptian theories, and found most all dynasties were European bloodlines, not African. Some went to South America looking for evidence of Europeans there as well as in America. They believed Columbus was not the first European on the continent, and indeed the Vikings may not have been the first either. There was evidence uncovered that tribes of Europeans were there thousands of years ago.
The Ahnenerbe studied all aspects and theories of creation and evolution, the origin of races and traced the paths of the early Aryans who went on to form the twelve main tribes of European nations. They had compatriots all over the world in every nation. I met some from Scotland and America who were very interested in the work Dr. Jordan headed. Nothing sinister about looking into your past to see about improving your future.
[Above: Inside Wewelsburg Castle]
Gudrun: No, I heard enough evidence by speaking with my father’s friends and those who were with him until the end. He had so much knowledge of the war, what started it, how it was fought, dirt on heads of state, and most of all the work with the Jews to help remove inmates from overcrowded camps. This does not fit with the Allied version of “extermination of the Jews”. Because he knew so much and could disprove all Allied claims against Germany and the Führer, he was killed on Churchill’s orders I believe, to keep him from talking. My father was not like his friend Dr. Goebbels, he believed we could work with the Allies after the war to combat communism and had nothing to fear. He told mother to stay at our home and to advise any Allied soldier we were the family of Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler, and we would be safe.
Dr. Goebbels killed his family because he believed they would end like Mussolini, and his children would be raped and mistreated by Soviet soldiers and Jews. My father had no worries like that for us, he believed the western Allies were good and would come to their senses as to the danger in the east. He was wrong in this, and our captors mistreated us. They withheld food and water, hygiene items, groped my mother and me, threatened us with rape and said I would be sent to Russia.
I have had people reach out to the men who claim they buried my father to see if they can lead us to his grave. They are typical English where they believe him to be their enemy and a very bad man and have no desire to help, this shows how powerful propaganda is. They become heartless because they believe they are saving the world from evil. They have no idea they were the evil ones, fighting an evil war against an innocent nation and its people.
You worked with Silent Help; can you tell me what this is? The book The Odessa File claims it was a spy-like network protecting war criminals and killers.
Gudrun: I have to laugh at that, that book is pure fiction. Stille Hilfe was quite simply an organization created to help fight for pensions for former SS men who served their nation in time of war. We also worked with Otto Skorzeny to help move people out of Allied held areas so that they were not facing kangaroo court justice. The Allies claim the entire SS was a criminal organization, killing Jews, surrendered soldiers, civilians, and every other group.
Many innocent SS men were murdered at war's end and their families tracked down and sent away to camps; we tried to protect them and fought to get them money. We were very successful in getting donations to help them support their families. Nothing sinister in this either. We were just helping and protecting families falsely labeled as criminals and accused of false crimes. The American Ernest Hemingway even brags about killing a young SS soldier who surrendered, I wonder what was told to his mother.
I am still with this organization and was happy that your President Reagan visited Bitburg where many SS men rest to lay a wreath. They died fighting for a better world in which a man is judged by the way he cares for his people and their future on this earth.
Did you ever meet Hitler and what was your impression of him?
Gudrun: I met the Führer many times. To me he was like a family member. He always commented on my clothes and hair, he said I behaved as a German girl should, always proper and polite. Whenever I saw him, I always received a gift whether it was food or a book. He was always so kind and spoke to me as if everything I said to him meant a lot. We had many small conversations regarding school and my past times. The Führer was a true gift to the German people, he opened eyes to a new and better world that someday will come, like a phoenix. National Socialism was born a hard birth and died a fiery death, but it must happen that way to waken more of our racial brethren than what Germany had the power to do.
[Above: Adolf Hitler greeting Gudrun Himmler at the steps of the Berghof, 1938. The other little girl is Ursula von Ribbentrop.]
How do you feel about those who tried to kill Hitler?
Gudrun: They are traitors plain and simple. The Allies hid their involvement and tried to make it seem like noble Germans stood against evil, but the truth is the English tried many times to use plants in high places to kill the Führer. The bomb Stauffenburg used came from the English. My father was key in using his police to root out Germans who worked for the Allies, it took the July 20th attempt to help find them all, and they had by this time made many contacts. He did not believe Field Marshal Rommel had anything to do with the traitors but sadly, a few in the officer corps had been infiltrated.
The lies of the Allies will someday be exposed and the world will know Germany was right and justified in the conduct of the war. As my father would say, we fought evil with light, guided by the spirit of our ancestors and the heroes of old. We lost due to being outnumbered and overwhelmed, even the most elite fighting men in the world could not stop it. My father once said that SS generals should have been put in charge like Sepp Dietrich and Paul Hausser, and then the war may have had a different outcome, he felt many army officers lacked a firm belief in being able to win against such odds. They were afraid of fate where SS men were fearless and stared fate in the eyes.
[Above: Gudrun and her father]
