1) Can you please introduce yourself and your organization the 'National Socialist Movement' (NSM)?

Greetings, I am Cmdr. Jeff Schoep the National Director of the NSM. The National Socialist Movement is America's largest NS group, and one of the largest Nationalist Organizations in the USA. We are highly active in the streets, politically, and even on the southwest borders with our ongoing patrols. We consider ourselves to be a white civil rights organization, much to the chagrin of the so-called civil rights groups that represent all of the non-white and special interest groups, it is critical that white people have such an organization as well, so we fill that void. The NSM is a continuation of the Movement of Commander George Lincoln Rockwell. We were founded in 1974 by Robert Brannen whom had previously served with Commander Rockwell. After Cmdr. Rockwell's untimely death (he was assassinated by a traitor by the name of John Patler) the movement splintered into several different NS factions, only 2 of those factions remain today that were directly connected to the Movement of Commander Rockwell, those being The National Socialist Movement and The New Order.

2) The NSM is probably one of the most visible NS organizations in the US, what kind of backlash have you experienced from the media, employers etc.?

The media is never very kind to us, we, like most white rights groups, are mislabeled as a hate group by the Zionist controlled mass media. In regards to employers, many of our people, myself included, in the past have been fired from jobs due to our open political activism. The average Party member does not usually have that problem, unless they are openly recruiting at work, which of course we discourage. Those of us who have done TV or newspaper interviews, or have run for public office are more likely to face persecution in the work place. The same goes for our people in the Armed forces, if the man or woman is recruiting while serving in the Army, the Army will kick you out. It’s a double standard because it does not happen to non-white organizations, but it certainly happens to white groups. The one upside to your question regarding Media is that now with the internet NSM and other White Nationalist groups have our own Media. We have 3 radio shows that run live and also are recorded weekly, which feature live callers, guests, chat rooms, and downloads if you missed the live shows. We also have a quarterly E-Zine that is published on our website www.nsm88.org, a forum, email lists, our own media team called NSM Media that produces those along with videos on our YouTube channels. We even have full length DVDs that we offer at www.nsm88records.com which is our Record Label and store. We have essentially made our own media, as a way to promote our goals and ideals without Zionist influence and control. It’s news from the source, how it should be.

3) I recently listened to a speech you gave in Mississippi and I really liked the way you stressed the fact that we need to remember that it is not the immigrants that are orchestrating the destruction of Western culture, and as a matter of fact they themselves only wish to live in peace. We know who the enemy is, and that enemy is the enemy of all peoples. The Third Reich united with all races of mankind to fight our common foe, and that is the key. Hatred in the wrong direction is detrimental to us all and the enemy knows this and instigates and takes advantage of this weakness. Can you explain a bit more about how you feel about this?

Thank you, and yes you are absolutely correct. I am glad you asked me this question, as it is something people so often misunderstand about National Socialism and our stance on White Rights in general. NS is NOT about hate, it never was, and it never will be. Sure, we all hate that has happened to our Nation and what is happening to our Folk, but what motivates us is not hate, but rather love for our people, land, and heritage. I have done countless interviews over the years with mainstream media and they so often call us a hate group, or ask why do we hate this group or that, and it always baffles the mind. I challenge them to look on our site and tell me where they find anything that is truly hateful. They really cannot do it. They say that our policy of white separation is hateful and other silly things like that. Indeed the 3rd Reich did incorporate people from many different racial backgrounds into the fight for National Socialism. NS politically can be taken and transplanted into any Nation. I often hear people parroting the lie that Hitler claimed NS was only for Germans and not for export, that simply is not true. The Waffen SS for example had people of many different Nations, Races, Religions, and cultures involved in it, one of the lesser known divisions is the Handschar SS which was a Muslim division with volunteers from Bosnia and also Arab lands. The Grand Mufti of Palestine was allied with Hitler and NS, and even today we have many people from that part of the world who adore Hitler and NS.

I have even personally met with people in the past that had connections with the Handschar Division, other SS Divisions, Hitler Youth, Volksturm, and Wehrmacht too of course. Perhaps that was off topic a bit, but it may be of some interest to those reading this who believe NS was only for Germans, or only for white people. Perhaps even further off topic-- there is an interesting movie, I believe it was called "My Way", about a Korean marathon runner, which they say is based on a true story. A very good movie if anyone wants to check it out, based in World War 2, long story short at the end two Koreans were captured by the U.S. in German Wehrmacht uniforms fighting for the German Reich, and the movie tells the story of how that all happened, but my point is simple, if NS Germany hated non-whites then why did they have Arab Divisions in the SS and even a couple of random Korean guys in the Army?

Back to your question, yes all of mankind should be fighting for National Socialism against our common foes which are the International Zionists, communists, and their allies. They say communism is dead, but International Jewry has played both sides, capitalism and communism, and they are in the thick of the evil that plagues us to this day. That being said, it is not the poor illegal immigrant family that we must fight against, it is those who have orchestrated the madness behind their plight, and those whom have propped open our borders, granted amnesty and have brought our Nation to the brink of collapse.

4) There seems to be a sentiment that has taken hold of the movement recently that women are the major factor behind our problems and that women should not be allowed to vote or participate in politics on any level. It seems to me that actually we NEED women and sending the message that women 'belong in the kitchen' is the exact wrong way to attract women. Thoughts?

Myself and the NSM feel that women are an important part of our struggle, and certainly not a major factor behind our problems. Women have been targeted more so by Zionist brainwashing techniques and more have given into miscegenation than our men have, however it is not women as a whole that are our problem. If you ask me, less of our women would be lost if more of our men were Alpha male types and actually proved worthy to attract our women. I know I will take some flak from some people for saying that, but I for one have never had any problems talking to, or bringing women to our side. Not that a man is needed to bring them to our side either, just making a point, as so many men in the Nationalist Movement are perpetually single, and being in this struggle so many years I know these guys and they are good men, great men really many of them, it is just that so many women turn away from our struggle or fear it even.

On the other hand, the NSM is one of the few organizations that does allow and have women in leadership positions. We have even had Regional Leaders that have been women in recent years. A Regional Leader is someone who is in charge of a number of states including overseeing the state and local chapters, so we see ourselves as an equal opportunity organization (ughhhh that sounds so liberal ha ha ha kidding), but in all seriousness we do have women in key positions if they qualify and we will continue to do so. It’s not about which gender someone is, it’s about who can best do the job, and believe me I am sure not all men like it, even within our Organization, but we are not run by a democracy, the NSM operates under National Socialism, there is no voting within the Org.

5) Do you think organizations are the way to go at this point in the struggle? There are those who believe a lone wolf strategy is best. Everyone has heard of the deep infiltrations of enemy spies and agents that target organizations. Does that worry you? I don't see any way to safeguard against this. Enemy agents could no doubt sow a lot of subtle chaos in groups, not to mention gather intelligence. Realistically, don't you think there are agents hiding in the NSM? Since you are smart and do not tolerate illegal activities of any kind, the effectiveness of these parasites is limited, however. Your thoughts on all of this?

I disagree with the lone wolf strategy, it is the politics of failure if you ask my opinion, with one big exception, let me explain here. Now, if someone is going out to do something illegal or let’s say revolutionary even, then yes the lone wolf route is the only way to go, and it can be highly effective in that sense. However as a mass political movement or philosophy it is an absolute failure and will serve nothing but setting us back. I have been active in this struggle for 20 plus years now, and have seen/met hundreds, maybe thousands of people who claimed to follow the lone wolf strategy, and for 99% of them it was an excuse to do absolutely nothing, and I do mean NOTHING for the white struggle. Sitting around drinking, hanging out, being a club of buddies or whatever they want to call it, it’s called being lazy and doing nothing. The other 1% are guys who are striking out against the system in very real ways, and for them the lone wolf strategy is the best route and it is effective and we must honor those men and women.

Regarding enemy spies, yes it is a very real problem we have faced, and likewise every organized white nationalist group has faced it. We have some things in place to help catch these vermin, and sometimes we do catch them, other times they go undetected, especially in larger groups like ours it is very difficult to know who is trustable. I always tell people to never say anything to anyone that you would not say inside a police station, yea maybe that’s being paranoid because most of the people are involved for the right reasons, and maybe 1 out of 1,000 are informants, or more or less, we never know, but it is still wise to be cautious of everyone, and avoid illegal activities to avoid being sent into zog’s gulags. For us we keep it legal so enemy spies have little to report on, but sometimes they go on to sell their stories and write books.

One informant that I remember from recent years went on TV and lied, telling the cameras that the time he spent with the NSM he heard guys talking about killing people, raping, beating down non-whites and basically every violent thing he could think of. He spoke of how violent and dangerous we are, yet his infiltration of our organization led to not one arrest of anyone involved in our organization, so I wonder where did he witness all these claims he made? It was all lies obviously, but he nevertheless collected $20,000.00 in taxpayer’s dollars from the Federal Govn't in pay for spying on us, and who knows how much was made for him in book sales, and whatever other deals he cut. That was just one informant story, I have others.

6) There has been a void of leadership within the struggle for years. Many of our greatest men are in dungeons around the world. It seems every time a potential leader arrives on the scene the enemy finds a way to take him down. The enemy specializes in lies and deceit, often planting 'evidence' of some crime on their targets. Matt Hale is a good example. First they attacked his organization, stripping it of its name, then, not satisfied, they charged him with a ludicrous accusation of wanting to kill a judge. What are your thoughts and how will you avoid the minefield?

Rev. Matt Hale is a friend, and a good man. I was there with him and others in Chicago getting ready to attend his court hearing over the stripping of his organizations name, and after he walked through the metal detectors for court the Federal Marshalls grabbed him. A few others and I were also detained and then released later that day.

I really liked your interview with Rev. Hale, and I do fully believe he was framed and set up by an informant. I encourage anyone reading this interview to go back and read Rev. Hale's interview first if you have not already done so, to get an understanding of exactly what was done to him. My advice for all white nationalists trying to avoid the minefield is this: stay legal, and do not even tolerate anyone speaking about illegal or potentially questionable things around you. Rev. Hale's case is one of the scariest set-ups I can think of. I believe the informant offered to do something illegal and Rev. Hale simply stated that he does not do anything illegal but whatever this guy wants to do is on him, and the system twisted that into Rev. Hale giving the approval for something illegal. Now that is scary, and an absolute travesty of justice. Things are not the same now as they were back in the 1980s or early 90s when a fight was just a fight and a night in jail, now a fight can land you with hate crimes charges and a 7 year sentence or longer.

It’s insanity at it’s worst! We have young men coming to our ranks all the time and they want to go take care of business, and we advise every one of them that if they come to us with this stuff that it will end them up in jail, and to do things legally. If they persist with that talk we cut them loose from the organization, we can only assume they are working for the system and attempting to entrap us, which we will not tolerate. The NSM has a strict policy that if someone commits a serious crime while a member of the Party we revoke their membership. It has to be done to protect the organization, and it’s the same policy most other groups have adopted now as well, it’s the only way to keep the group alive and operating in this dangerous environment, behind enemy lines, so to speak.

7) One thing that many people criticize groups like the NSM of is wearing historical German National Socialist uniforms. We all love and respect our great NS warriors past, but people say wearing uniforms/collar tabs and badges is going too far. Critics bring up the argument that many of these things were earned, especially the SS collar tabs. Your thoughts?

The NSM changed its uniforms in April 2008 when we dropped the Commander Rockwell Era brown shirts and swastika armbands and went to all black BDUs [battle dress uniform –ed.], with NSM patches. The only time the traditional uniforms of our early days are worn now is at the National Meeting on or around the weekend of April 20th every year, to honor Adolf Hitler, and also to honor our founder Commander Rockwell. The traditional uniforms have not been worn at any public rally since November of 2007 which has been almost 10 years now, but yet we do still hear online chatter about ‘oh the NSM wears German uniforms at rallies’, etc., which is not even true. I do agree that no one should be wearing German war medals, or any war medals that were not earned and perhaps a few people had done that in decades in the past, but it is not something we see going on now. We do however allow members who had served in the U.S. armed forces to wear their earned medals and ribbons on their uniforms if they choose to do so.

8) Do I understand it correctly that the NSM no longer permits the wearing of historical NS uniforms? When was this decision made and what motivated it?

Ahhh, I just partially answered this in question #7. The motivation was for multiple reasons. One being that so many people coming to us for membership thought we were just a group for Germans, which looking back still makes me laugh but it was a really common question, so obviously it was a problem we had with our own identity. Some party members would have liked to keep the brown shirts as it tied us historically to our past connection with Commander Rockwell’s original ANP [American Nazi Party –ed.], however the times had changed and I felt that a more modern approach was needed. I looked at the growth some of our fellow NS groups in Europe were having and how they did things, and I felt the NSM in America was lacking in vision and a path into the future. America now is not what it was in the 1960s and 70s, and the time to modernize was upon us, so I made the move and announced it at our National Meeting in April of 2008, the next day we marched in Washington DC. Not everyone liked the move, but overall I think it was a wise move for the organization, and we are not really concerned with what people like, but rather what will bring us to Victory here in this Nation, and we hope to achieve that one day, or at least pave the path for it.

9) There is a ton of foolish and self-destructive arguing going on in the struggle. People whom generally believe the same thing but differ on tactics spend much of their energies fighting with one another. I believe people should keep their opinions to themselves and behind closed doors. Airing their grievances to the public makes them look childish and is tactically unsound. Personally I disagree with many things various people do and say in our fight, but at the end of the day we are fighting for the same ultimate goal. People should learn to keep their disputes private. Personally, I would never complain publically about anyone whose heart is in the right place but whose beliefs or tactics may differ from my own. Now behind closed doors, that's another matter entirely, I'll grumble to the dark until I'm blue in the face! But ultimately, people should keep their eyes on the real enemy and end the lame and cowardly internet attacks. How do you feel about all of this?

You summed this up 100% and I fully agree with every word in that statement. The NSM has never, ever aired dirty laundry on our website. At one time we were even sued by another alleged nationalist, we had to go to court and defend ourselves and hire a lawyer. It was horrible but we won the case, of course, because it was frivolous. Even after all of this that person and their ridiculous lawsuit against us was never mentioned on our site. A couple of other times people we had thrown out of the organization went on to attempt to form other groups, and tried to start drama with us, we ignored that too, and those people and their games have ended now. Every so often I will check around other groups sites and sometimes you will find public drama they have between other groups.

Our enemies pick up that stuff and run with it, which is why we will never provide any ammo to our enemies, and if we have problems, we handle them in-house, and/or directly in person until that problem ends, or the person stops their silly behavior. Sure, there are many different groups and we all have different ideas, ways of doing things, and sometimes we do not get along, but that stuff should never be aired publically where the enemies of our Folk can see it and laugh at us all about it. There needs to be more discipline in the white struggle, and that should be something all groups agree on across the board to not attack each other online. Privately, who cares, but publically, never!

[Above: The National Socialist Movement in Atlanta, Georgia, April 2013]